ADHD and Over Exercising: How to Break the Dopamine Cycle of Addiction

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ADHD and Over Exercising

Speaker 1  0:09 

and welcome to JenUp podcast again. If you’re struggling with an eating disorder and feeling lost, you’ve come to the right place. So both myself and Becky Stone are former sufferers of eating disorders, and we understand the challenges that you’re facing. So join us for inspiring, educational and relatable content, whether you’re seeking support, guidance or just someone who understands we are here for you. So it’s just Becky and I today, and we’re going to have a great conversation that we were just having before we came in this podcast about over exercising, ADHD and adrenaline,

Speaker 2  0:52 

which is something that both me and Jen have experienced. I know for me, when I was in like, the Miss of my over exercising, even though I was running on absolutely nothing, looking back on it, I don’t know how I was functioning. Like we was talking about, like running up the when you and me, we went up the mountain, and you was in that place of you wasn’t in a great space. How you got up that mountain was insane.

Speaker 1  1:22 

Yeah, I do remember that moment, and I don’t even know, I just had this sort of thought, I’ve got to get it done quick. Just get up there. There was no just get it done. Slave, obviously, I was still in a bad place then, and you know, I wasn’t, you know, fuelling my body adequately enough. And I researched into all this, and I tell this to clients who I work with now, is that you know, when you’re when you start, when you under eat and you over exercise, your body needs that fuel from somewhere, so it starts to produce, like, more cortisol and adrenaline, so your body, like, runs off of that. And also can be very addictive for like ADHD as well, because we’d like that adrenaline and the cortisone and thriving off of that, it becomes, it becomes really addictive. And I truly believed, I actually taught my body to run off that for so many years. I

Speaker 2  2:10 

reckon I did. I think having a diagnosis now looking but I think it’s like being diagnosed. It’s not like having a label and having like, Oh, look at me. I’ve got ADHD and I’ve joined the rest of the universe with it, it’s more about understanding the why. And I think looking back, it was like, oh so hard on myself, and like, thriving off that cortisol like I used to like me and my children’s dad are separated, and he used to have the kids for the weekend. I can wait to get in the gym. I mean, I would have gone nuts if he was like, late. I was that obsessed in my head, right? Go get in the gym. Gotta get it done. And I used to run and run and run on that run. I mean, I hate the running machine now, like with, oh my god, with a vengeance. But it was so addictive getting on there. And I wasn’t even weightlifting. It was all cardio.

Speaker 1  3:03 

Yeah, mine was cardio as well. I mean, I don’t I’ve noticed why I got stuck in that cycle, because when I do weights, I just don’t get the same feeling that I do from cardio. That’s me personally, when I do like a I don’t know if I go for a run or a cycle, so I started to cycle a bit more. Now I do notice that I feel that endorphin, that adrenaline after like endurance. I don’t get it when I do weights. For me personally, I just don’t no like

Speaker 2  3:29 

when I do CrossFit. I don’t get that cortisol drive like and that dopamine kick as much as what I did with the running. I must admit it’s really weird because, like, it’s I’ve fallen out of love with running now, I think I did so much on it, on this euphoric high all the time, that there’s something goes in my head now that, oh, and I want to do it, but once I get going with it, and I do do it, not to the extent before, I still really enjoy that run as high. But there is something that’s wired in my brain to, oh, it’s so addictive. And I can see why that with an eating disorder, possibly undiagnosed, like neurodivergent as well, and how fixate, I mean, I was, I was fixated. I was not like, I was not wired properly at the time?

Speaker 1  4:21 

Yeah, no, it’s interesting. And you get stuck in that cycle, and it becomes a habit, so, and it’s very hard to get out of that habit. And I work with clients who are in that habit, with the addiction, with the Okay, need to get out exercise endorphin. And also, you know, if, if someone ends up like binging in the evening, or they’re binging later in the day. They feel compelled to go the next day to exercise in order to make themselves feel better. But in a sense, they’re just keeping the habit going because their blood sugars aren’t stable, so their body’s always playing catch up. But

Speaker 2  4:56 

if you think about the binging and the exercise both. Of them are dopamine related, yeah, so you’re then going to binge because you want quick food. It’s instant, it’s euphoric, it’s amazing. And then you have that cream, as I call it, that cringing shame that makes you feel so embarrassed that you’re doing it, and so many people do it as well, and we just don’t talk about it. And then you go round in this reward system of I’ve got go to the gym, I’ve gotta burn it all off. And actually, the thought of missing, I know where I was in my head, that if I missed a day at the gym, oh my god, I beat myself up. I’d be shaming myself. I was going to end up looking like an MPA lumper. I was going to put all the weight back on like it was, it was, I was so hard on

Speaker 1  5:44 

myself, yeah, and no, it’s a good point. Yeah, I was hard on myself as well, but it was a really good point when you said about there, but the binge in dopamine hit feel good. So how does someone get out of that?

Speaker 2  5:59 

How I look at it is because my brain. I don’t know about you, Jen, I think for me, I will always need dopamine, and I thrive off it. I love it, whether it’s toxic dopamine or healthy dopamine, I’m always going to need it. I don’t know whether medication would help me, but for the time being, I’m not, I’m not looking at that. So I make a list, and I always say to all my clients, and for me personally as well, I make a list of all of the healthy dopamine that I can do. And very I’ve also got a list of toxic dopamine. So toxic dopamine might be food restricting and eating, arguing in relationships. Love a good argument, great, toxic dopamine addiction. So it might be, I don’t know people might go into, like, porn. It might be, I mean, alcohol is one that I have to be very careful of. People who smoke a lot of weed drugs. I’m just trying to think of another dopamine, oh, shopping, lava, good shopping, but that I’ve got to be really careful. They’re all my toxic dopamine. So I will always explore with clients, which is their toxic dopamine, so they’re aware of what they do. And then I love shopping still, but it’s gotta be a healthy boundary way, um, being outdoors, I find is a really good, healthy dopamine, okay, yeah, healthy controlled exercise. So like CrossFit class for me is really good because it’s boundaried, it’s a time slot. My body’s only going to handle so many weights at certain points, so it’s nice and controlled. Okay, cool. Really good friendships as well. Yeah, so instead of having those arguments and thriving off like responses of what having that toxic argument, I would say healthy, really nourishing, like going for long walks, going heights, planning, adventures, holidays, all things to look forward to that have got purpose. Because if I don’t have purpose, I don’t get dopamine,

Speaker 1  8:11 

right? That’s really good advice for our listeners. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you Becky for those awesome suggestions on healthy dopamine. I myself, I’m going to try and implement those. I mean, my extreme form of dopamine is slalom water skiing. I must admit,

Speaker 2  8:34 

it’s definitely not mine.

Speaker 1  8:36 

It does give me that dopamine like up after so I only do one set a day now, because I’ve learnt that two sets pushes my body over the edge a little bit so but, you know, I’ve had to, like, you know, look at my own training, obviously routine as well. Because, you know, when I was obviously in my 20s, I got away with a lot more, and I used to do a lot more, but I’ve had to be a bit more strategic and plan better around where I’m going to utilize my energy, you know the most, and not over train. Because, you know, as we know what over training does, it’s not good for the body as well. So again, finding healthy day for me and sources, it’s really key.

Speaker 2  9:13 

I mean, like, I think my healthy dopamine is like, I went off to the New Forest, like, over the bank last bank holiday, and we went hiking, and we honestly, it was amazing. I absolutely loved it. And if you said to me years ago, would I just go on a hike? Well, it wouldn’t have been enough. I would have been like, Oh no, no. I gotta do more. I gotta do more. And actually, it was amazing, because my head Shut up, like my head was quiet, I felt relaxed, and I was outdoors, like I call it nourishing my soul. So I think anybody is, if you’re doing the exercise, do you actually feel like you’ve nourished your belly? And do you feel like you’ve nourished your soul? Cos if they’re not all in sync and they want to like you’re not. Line, it’s gonna exhaust you to the point that obviously, we both know you can’t carry on doing that level of exercise.

Speaker 1  10:09 

No, and I had to learn that the hard way. Like I generally thought my body could sustain this map. And that’s what I’d say to clients like, you know, what’s the longevity of this? What’s the longevity of your current training regime, which is, you know, the clients that I work is a lot, you know, what’s the future? You know, thinking about overuse injury, something that I’ve struggled with, you know, and I’ve had to really reflect on that and kind of think about, you know, how I look after my body now, not just, you know, you know, treating it like it’s this machine, which is what I did. So and kind of respecting it. That’s why I said looking at training, then scheduling in like rest days and stuff. Because obviously, both know I used to struggle with rest days that wasn’t exactly in my itinerary, but let’s just put it that way, still,

Speaker 2  10:56 

isn’t it? Like ADHD people hate sitting still. Yeah, do things like, like walking. For me, I’m like moving. I like, I like doing gentle movement. I’m still haven’t got my head around doing yoga yet, but I don’t like yoga is supposed to be really good, really good for the movement, but because of that movement and that energy, like, I know my brain is going to have a little party the moment you tell me that I’ve gotta be quiet, my brain’s gonna be like, Oh, hello. So I think it’s about finding healthy dopamine that works mm for the individual, but I think also recognizing that the over exercising, I know for me, my hips started going and, yeah, it wasn’t a smart move. And I think that wear and tear, and I still have problems now with my hips, yeah, I think it’s a combination of having children, but it is also the wear and tear of what I’ve the impact that I put onto my body. I was so hard on myself. And it wasn’t weight training, it wasn’t like weight bearing stuff, it was constant cardio. Yeah,

Speaker 1  12:11 

you were like me, I’ve had problems with my hips. Um, I’ve been doing a lot of, like, hip and glute strengthening. Um, obviously, like running, you’re going to be overusing your hips as well. So if you haven’t strength trained in certain areas, so yeah, hips is a big one. And also with, like, bone density. If you know clients are struggling with that, the first place it normally goes is your hips and spine. That’s where the brain density goes. So it’s the most affected area. And

Speaker 2  12:37 

I have to be really careful now, like, if I can’t really run over 5k like, the base of my back goes, I was in here cleaning it, like, I mean, I’ve decorated the office out and stuff, and I was in here putting all the books in. After about three hours of bending up and down the base, my back’s hurting. Like I had to take painkillers. Whether that’s an impact, I don’t know from the eating disorder, could be having two children very close together, could be a combination of stuff, but I’m very aware of looking after my body. Now, instead of being which being horrible to yourself creates dopamine as well.

Speaker 1  13:16 

Yeah, it does. Yeah, that’s true. So

Speaker 2  13:19 

I think it’s being mindful that, like, if you’re going to keep being horrible to yourself and beating yourself up and comparing yourself to others, that will escalate the dopamine, which then escalates the eating disorder thinking, which then escalates the exercise?

Speaker 1  13:34 

Yeah, no, it does. So I guess we’ve talked this obviously resonates with me so a lot, and I’m sure with other people listen to this. So any tips for how so if someone is listening to this and then going for an Eastern disorder, or maybe they know someone who has an Eastern disorder and they’re struggling with compulsive exercise, what would be the first thing that you say to them? How would you deal with that person? How would you obviously try and help motivate them out of that habit nine

Speaker 2  14:02 

get into that part of them that is exhausted, and getting them to I mean, I don’t know about you, Jen, but if somebody told me I wasn’t to do it, I was going to do it anyway. So I don’t like being told what to do. But as everyone knows me, I’m quite a strong minded woman. So I think it’s finding that side of compromise. Okay, is it that you reduce it down and you reduce it down? Can you tap into their thinking brain, which is really hard when you’re undernourished, because your thinking brain isn’t like you’re not cognitively frontline. So it’s trying to work with that person, reduce it down, find that comparison. So is it that that instead of going on a like a 10k run, do you go for an 8k run? Do you bring it down to 6k run? Is it that you then go for a really nice, long walk? So you’ve got that distraction, you’ve got. Movement, yeah, with somebody else, so you’ve got accountability.

Speaker 1  15:04 

Yeah, that’s really good advice. Yeah, I would

Speaker 2  15:07 

say try to slow it down so your body starts coming off this high adrenaline, cortisol and so that stress levels coming down as

Speaker 1  15:18 

well. Really good advice. Love it. That’s what I sort of say to clients well. So I think the second one is they all fear weight gain. Yep,

Speaker 2  15:29 

and you’re not mean, you don’t look like an Oompa Loompa. Like,

Speaker 2  15:35 

the fear like that was my biggest fear, that if I didn’t exercise, I was going to be in this great big fat wee ball, and I was going to be rolling round, and you weren’t going to get me through the doors where I’m not that body will naturally repair itself and go back to a natural set point weight.

Speaker 1 15:52 

Yeah, it will.

Speaker 2  15:55 

And your worst fear around putting weight on is not going to happen.

Speaker 1  16:02 

It’s so it’s, you know, when if someone said that to me, I’d be like, okay, you know, fine, but I haven’t done it yet. It’s because the art. It’s the unknowing. That’s the unknown. Of like, Okay, I’ve heard that piece of information, but how do I really know that it’s the unknown? Because it’s like, it’s out of their control as well. There’s a so much that goes into that of what you’ve just said, because if someone said that to me, I’d be like, Okay, do I really want to test that theory? Don’t know, like, so hard, because it’s control, yeah, the unknowing.

Speaker 2  16:37 

So that’s where the slowing it down, like breaking that routine down, bringing the cortisol level down. And when you’re in a state of fight and flight all the time, you will be absolutely on adrenaline, because that’s what you’re doing. You’re in your prime.

Speaker 3  16:54 

Yeah, yeah, you will, yeah. I was the same,

Speaker 2  16:58 

yeah. And I think I’ve learnt that, I think with ADHD, I think your brain is naturally in a fight mode all the time anyway, so it’s trying to find ways of regulating that down. But it’s gotta work for you. It’s gotta work for the person that you are trying to talk to about the eating disorder, and I think it is about finding healthier coping strategies, because I agree, like what we’ve both said. One, it’s that fear me. I’m never going to do anything that anyone tells me what to do. It’s gotta be my idea. It’s gotta be my thinking brain. But it’s also gotta be do I like from this is how I work with clients. I’d like. Do you actually want to live your life like this. How does it benefit you?

Speaker 1  17:43 

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2  17:46 

Like no one is going to go into recovery until they are ready. So it doesn’t matter what you say or how much help you have, you’ve got to get to that point that you want more out of your

Speaker 1  17:56 

life. Yeah, I think a lot of people and so people can relate to this. And what my problems with it was, was, I was I saw it as an achievement. There was an achievement aspect to it. The

Speaker 2  18:08 

achievement, isn’t it moving a different type of

Speaker 1  18:12 

goal, yeah, and it’s finding a different type of goal, like finding a new focus, which is what I had to do. But I also look at back at what I did achieve during sort of when I was running cross country and stuff, and I actually look at it and think, did that actually make me happy? And I can’t actually say it did, because I look at it and think, don’t know that was just a weird time, like, like, I can’t actually say yes, that made me absolutely ecstatic. No, I can’t say that about it. I can’t

Speaker 2  18:44 

you wouldn’t have been happy anyway, because you’ll be in such a trance, yeah? Like, the adrenaline, that you wouldn’t actually be authentically happy.

Speaker 1  18:53 

Yeah? Nice. I was not.

Speaker 1  18:57 

That was not the definition of happiness, which I thought it was at the time being, coming from that high achieving sort of background that I had, and still sometimes have, but I think that, and I just think, well, no, that wasn’t. That didn’t fulfil me. And unless, I’m sure there’s a lot of people listening to this that can relate to that as well, and it’s, as you said, it’s finding a different goal, like refocusing on something else and get getting rid of the fear of failure as well. I had a lot of that. So

Speaker 2  19:24 

actually, failure isn’t I know that me and you’ve had some banters over the years, but yeah, those fears of failure is actually, there is so much golden treasure in failing, like, and there’s so much like, what can I do differently? Personally, I’m always going to make mistakes. I’m I think I’m not as you’ve got more of a be perfect driver than me. Yours is the perfectionism. Mine is, well, I’m going to mess up anyway, so I’ll just roll with it. I did some really random stuff, yeah, but the eating disorder was the number goal for me. Like, I’m do. Calculus I can’t add up for oh, it’s ridiculous. I’m if I can get through my accounts without crying, brilliant, um, but when it came down to adding up the numbers, it was addictive. It was euphoric. It was amazing. I was clever. I was like, Oh, I can add numbers up. Ask me. Now you got no chance. Yeah. But I think being able to accept that we’re human and humans, we’re not primed to get it perfect.

Speaker 1  20:29 

No, I agree. Yeah, I totally agree. And I do say that when I talk, when I talk about that in schools, I did struggle with that, and I’ve learned how to with the perfectionism side, and I’ve learned how to deal with that. And when it shows up, I just kind of, you know, work on it, you know, you manage it, you know, yeah. And also,

Speaker 2  20:49 

I think as families like, it’s about saying, what, what did you mess up with? Not like if you came home and you got 98% Well, where’s the other 2% would you Why couldn’t you done that? Right? It’s actually asking your children or your people in your lives like you messed up. But how are you going to do this differently next time? What are you going to learn from it?

Speaker 1  21:10 

Yeah, no, no, it’s true. Yeah. What can you take from that? What Connect? Because if you don’t mess up, how you gonna learn, but how you gonna learn anything new? So

Speaker 2  21:18 

yeah. And also, I think, like I’ve got a grandson now, and he’s oblivious. He’s two. He falls over, he gets up, he doesn’t beat himself up. He has to keep making these mistakes, so he learns, and then he starts getting it right. And we’re human. We’re going to do this all the way. And I always find it and maybe it’s another podcast for another time, but I always find it interesting is, when did we learn that we had to get it perfect? Was it school? Was it through our parents? Because, like little man, he’s oblivious that he’s made a mistake. Okay? He knows he’s going to get it wrong. He just raises his eyebrow at me, and he’s like, Yeah, I know this is not right.

Speaker 1  22:04 

Mine definitely came from family.

Speaker 1  22:07 

So definitely learn sort of behaviour around that and kind of yeah, definitely from family. So I didn’t

Speaker 2  22:14 

and I reckon mine was family as well. I think I was the same as you, because yours was I had to get it perfect. I was going to make mistakes anyway, so I was just the disappointment child, so I just carried on with it. Oh, all the Undiagnosed that was, all the shame I was. I could control failure. So if I made the mistake and I messed it up, no one else can tell me I was not good enough. So, and that actually fed my eating disorder as well. That not feeling good enough. I actually thought, if I was skinny, yeah, lovable in my body. And actually, no, why would I be lovable when I was miserable?

Speaker 1  22:55 

Yeah, yeah, no. I mean, yeah, it’s, I’m sure people listening to this will be able to, hopefully to relate to some of this. And, yeah, it’s and I think it’s good to be speaking about this and talking about it more so,

Speaker 2  23:10 

and I think more people need to. I think

Speaker 2  23:14 

being able to understand the dopamines, yeah, and possibly looking at that neurodiversity. I know that I’ve spoken to a few clients that they’ve got, I’ve thought, thought that there’s a little bit of ADHD there. And I know I can’t diagnose, but the patterns of the behaviours of what I did were very similar. And always said, Do you think there’s something there? Nope, nope, nope. And then a little while later into their recovery, they’re like, Yeah, you know, you said this, and I go, Oh, see the pattern, but it is a dopamine,

Speaker 1  23:50 

yeah, okay, no, that’s great. Thank you so much for that, and I’m hope that people listening to this. We’re trying to keep these podcasts short, sweet and snappy, so we don’t get bored, you know. So I hope that everyone listened to this found it beneficial and today. So, any last words, Becky?

Speaker 2  24:11 

I would say, create a healthy dopamine list. Get a purpose. Start looking to the future. And I know sometimes looking to the future can be really scary, but it actually recovery isn’t as scary as you think it could be. Both me and Jen, we’ve we live really good lives now and have so much happiness and so many people around us, and we both haven’t turned into great big fat Oompa Loompas.

Speaker 1  24:39 

Yes, that is, that is Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1  24:44 

And it’s just, it’s just that fear and someone you know with a history of over exercising, it’s just to say that you can come out the other side. And as you said, what you really important in what you said, having diverting your goals. Have something else to focus on, and believe that every you know, each and every. One of you who’s listened to this, you’re made for great things, if you just put your mind to it, and that’s what I had to believe as well. So

Speaker 2  25:06 

yeah, and I think recovery is possible if you

Speaker 1  25:10 

want it. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2  25:14

Thank you so much for listening to the JenUp podcast.

Speaker 2  25:18 

Jenny’s been your host, and so have I Becky stone. And you can find us on Facebook and Instagram at ask JenUp and on the website, at Jen, www dot JenUp.com and if you visit the website, you’ll find lots of different resources available there. Please like and subscribe and share you Jenny, thank you so much for listening to the Gen up podcast. Please subscribe and share this podcast so others can benefit. You can find us on Facebook and Instagram and ask JenUp and on Jenny’s website, at JenUp.com if you visit the website, you’ll find lots of different resources there, please, like, subscribe and share.

How to get help?

Jenny Tomei is a Nutritional Therapist and Eating Disorder coach. See all her credentials on her About Jen page and then should you need help then make contact with her today. Your road to recovery can start now!